Nov 4, 2004
Gotta Go
Momus has the right idea.
For those of you thinking of leaving America today — and there are many, I’m sure — I’d say just do it. Walk away. Leaving Britain is the best thing I ever did. I lived for years there feeling like a political and cultural exile, trying to fight back with satire and a thousand subtle forms of stubbornness and resistance. But being an ‘internal exile’ is not good for the soul. My struggle with attitudes which seemed toxic to me started making me as hard, cynical and corrupt as the people and the attitudes I was fighting.
Ignorance is not bliss.
Jean Snow is a contributor to 
He will be contributing to the upcoming fifth editions of 
Momus and Jean thanks for the support… I’ve been swearing that if that bastard got “re-elected” that I was blowing this pop stand. Why should I f-n stay in place and try and argue with people who are so dim that they’ll elect this fool and be oaky with what he does? I’d be on the fringe no matter who was the pres., but electing a Moron like him… the f-n republicans tapped into Americas greatest demographic… stupid people.
I am totally moving to Japan in protest. Oh, wait…
I took a trip from Brooklyn, NY to Cleveland, Ohio to serve as a legal poll monitor on Election Day in a largely African American voting precinct. Turnout was higher than anyone had ever seen, and the voters at that precinct seemed solidly Democratic. People around the world should know that huge blocks of Americans, everywhere — not just in New York, California, and New England — disagree with this President’s agenda and want a different approach. We lost this time, but we are going to fight, and we can win again. I think we could have won if we Dems had had the temerity to nominate Howard Dean and run with his clear, concise anti-war message. Instead, we got the Fog of Kerry. Watch for Hilary in 2008 — a polarizing figure, but someone who would bring out women voters and energize the Dem base.
Don’t give up on America.
I think Howard Dean is great. I find that he when he speaks he sounds natural, which is just so refreshing. Every politician you hear speak sound like everything coming out of their mouth is party propaganda (or carefully chosen wording). Dean sounds smart, and he’s very comfortable talking to people (not dumb, like one candidate, or stiff, like the other).
I say Dean for 2008! I don’t think that Hillary is very likeable.
You’re right that Hillary lacks the personal warmth and ability to win over of some other politicians (most notably, her husband). And believe me, I for one, would quit my job and march all over this country for Howard Dean, who I thought spoke the truth forcefully and directly, and woke up the Democratic Party a year ago, and at least gave them a chance. Sadly, the Dems chose someone they thought was “electable” over someone they loved and were excited about. Now we see that Kerry was not so “electable”. Dean could have won the same states, and, I believe, with his clear and direct message, would have brought out even more of the base, and, crucially, the youth vote, and perhaps pulled in Ohio.
Still, Dean’s problem now is that he currently has no government position — he’s no longer governor of Vermont. So in running, he would probably be up against a one and a half term senator in Hillary, governors from New Mexico and Iowa, and potentially other senators and governors. Add to that the growing relevance of foreign policy with the U.S.’s wars, etc., and Dean’s lack of experience in that realm, and you see a difficult row for Dean to hoe there.
Also, Dems will be hesitant to run with another alleged “liberal” from the northeast. Since Kennedy, when the Dems have been able to win the White House, it’s been with Southerners: Carter, Clinton, (Gore with an asterisk). Hence, watch out for the former senator from North Carolina, John Edwards — although many were not impressed with his performance as VP candidate.
The basic problem the dems face is how to pull back Florida, some state(s) in the South (e.g., Virginia), some states in the Midwest (e.g., Ohio, Iowa), and Southwest/Rockies (e.g., New Mexico, Nevada, Colorado, Arizona). We can’t win with what we have now: the Pacific coast and the cold states.
It’s going to be a long four years.
I must say that Edwards didn’t make much of an impression on me. He seemed superficial, somehow.
Yes, it’s going to be a long four years, and there’s going to be a lot of rethinking going on within the Democratic party.
Another thing to keep in mind though. This time you had a Democrat who was rather conservative, and then in 2008 there’s a good chance that the Republicans will field McCain, who tends to be liberal on a lot of issues.
I agree. As I noted above, a lot of people thought Edwards was a flop during this campaign. I think Kerry would’ve done better to pick Wesley Clark, a Arkansas native and General, as VP. (Although, the problem with Clark was that he sometimes said goofy things.)
It will be interesting to see if McCain runs. He’s gotten old, and his health seems to be iffy. 2000 might’ve been his last real chance. If he is able, he will be a strong candidate, as he is probably one of the most popular politicians in the country.
Re internal debate in the Dem party, see
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/04/politics/campaign/04dems.html?hp
I’m not going to talk about Arnold. There’s not enough time for a const’l amendment. But 8 or 12 years out, we’ll see. He seems to be pretty popular as a liberal Republican in California.
America’s right wing swing is making it look as if Democrats will be out of power for decades. This is why I advocate leaving the country. Check Should Democrats Get Religion?, an article on the CBS site:
‘The Republican South has created some formidable election math for the Democrats. With the South in the pocket of the 2008 Republican presidential candidate, the 2008 Democratic nominee will need about 70 percent of electoral votes available in the rest of the country to win the White House. Some observers believe GOP triumphs in the South have created the conditions under which the Republicans can remain as the nation’s majority party for many years.’
So the Democratic party may never get back in. That means that the political agenda will continue to be set by fundamentalists and other mentalists, who will be stepping up to the world podium to deliver their odium right over the backs of hardworking but irrelevant urban liberals who have become, essentially, disenfranchised.
I agree that there may have been a rightward swing, but I don’t think Dems should be in a panic. And I don’t agree with the doomsayers that say that the Dems will never be able to win again.
This was one election. The margin in Ohio was not that great, and with a more appealing candidate, it’s my opinion that the Dems would have won in the Electoral College, by taking Ohio and/or Florida. Kerry ran a weak campaign — while the core Dem base came out, Kerry did not have the type of charisma or appeal that would pull in swing voters and Republicans.
I think Dems need to keep perspective and keep in mind that this is not the end. Reagan crushed Mondale. Bush crushed Dukakis. Bush did not crush Kerry. A few hundred thousand votes were the difference between victory and defeat. The tremendous fixation on blue and red states helps us to forget that many states are contested, and can be won over again.
Clinton won in 1992 (thanks to Perot), and convincingly in 1996. As I suggest above, the Dems need not write off the South — a charismatic Southerner (a la Clinton) could pull in one or two states, as Clinton did. Also, the American Southwest and Midwests will remain contested territories — the margins of victory in Iowa, Ohio, and New Mexico were not that great. An appealing candidate from those regions may also be the answer.
I think a large part of who wins in Amer. pres. elections comes down to a form of popularity contest. Reagan and Clinton were able to win in landslides b/c of their personal qualities and charisma. It’s hard for me and others to believe, but it appears Americans just like Bush a lot, personally. Karl Rove knows that Bush has something that appeals to a large segment of the nation. The Republicans and their base were gaga over W. They love him. It was hard to find a true Kerry supporter, or someone who loved the man. I think this goes a long way toward explaining an election that hinged on turnout. This is also why I suggested above that if the Dems had gone with their hearts and not their heads and picked Dean, we might have been in a better position.
Bush, in this sense, is the Republican’s Clinton — even though he is so different. He is their “natural”. Who will the Republicans field in 2008? McCain may be as popular or charismatic as Bush, but few other Republicans will have the same appeal.
Finally, a reason to stay and fight. I have no problem at all with leaving the country — I left for Japan for nine months. But I think it’s important to stay. How many non-Americans out there wish they could have influenced or had a say in this past election? (See, e.g., letters from the Guardian to Ohio voters.) America is the most powerful, and thus, potentially the most dangerous nation in the world today. Disheartened Dems and Greens and Independents should rally together and fight to take back the country, or resist the rightward swing. We must try to influence the direction of this country — and the best way to do that is from inside. The Republicans bided their time, organized, and took over after two terms of Clinton. The Dems and the left should prepare to do the same.
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20041122&s=editors
“a charismatic Southerner (a la Clinton) could pull in one or two states, as Clinton did.”
Although I do agree with the validity of this statement, in the end, isn’t this one of the things that shows how fucked up the US is right now? Southerners will vote for a Southerner. What a ridiculous reason to base a vote on.
That’s true, it’s ridiculous — although the ridiculousness, if you poke at it, extends much deeper. Would the U.S. elect a very ugly white man President? A very short white man? A very fat white man? An African American man? A Hispanic man? A Jewish man? A gay man? An Asian man? A Muslim man? A woman? (I don’t think so — and why not?) The taller candidate wins in the vast majority of U.S. Presidential elections (a rule which did not hold this time).
The reasons people vote are often ridiculous. As far as those reasons go, I don’t think it’s that absurd that Southerners may be more likely to vote for someone from the same region as them, someone who speaks in the same dialect as them. Is that not what the hometown advantage is about? People identify with people like them; this holds true everywhere. Wouldn’t voters in Quebec prefer a candidate who is able to speak French over one who is monolingual in English? That’s an issue of identification, and I think it makes sense. If a son of New Mexico runs for President, it stands to reason, and would seem unsurprising that New Mexicans would vote for him. The same principle applies to the South and a Southern candidate.
In any event, because of the state of the things in the U.S. at this moment in history, the pool of “viable” candidates — the perceived boundaries of which are dictated by the biases and whims of the electorate — is amazingly small.
I can give you an even more rediculous reason for voting.
In our recent elections here in Australia, a crappy TV show ‘Rove Live’ (kind of like Letterman) wanted PM John Howard on the show, during the campaigning period. They did all sorts of stunts like writing an invite on a massive banner and getting a light aircraft to fly it around parliament house and stupid stuff like that. Howard refused.
I talked to people who specifically voted against him, for the sole reason “he didn’t go on Rove”.
Now personally, I didn’t vote for him either – but not because he didn’t go on a bloody light entertainment tv show.
uh, ron, don’t you like have a job or something?
mike! what are you doing awake?
Momus’ tunes creep me out some time but he and I share the same fear of the “right wing swingers”. When the president of any country is consulting Billy Graham for policy and more than half the country is okay with that… its screwed.
That’s true. But we should remember that not so long ago we were screwed under Reagan — who was consulting astrologists and spacing out quite a bit while a cabal was selling arms to fund the Contras, all in violation of Congressional mandates. Still, I probably agree with you, Kikko Man, that we are pretty royally screwed right now. Should we flee and let the mentalists have their way? That is the question. America will continue to f*ck things up around the world, whether “irrelevant” urban liberals stay or not. Perhaps it’s a question of how much the irrelevant liberals can slow down the juggernaut? We probably wouldn’t be slowing anything down from beyond the borders.
Come on up! The weather’s fine! (from Shaun in Vancouver)
Check this out:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6408701/
Ron… are you a self-hating irrelevant liberal? Or just a super cool devil’s advocate? or a pissed-off patriot? or an armchair politician? or a dumb-founded outsider? I feel like an outsider myself even though I was born in a rural southern burg.
Kikko man: I’m probably a little of all of those. I live in New York, although, I might as well be living on the moon, for all the relevance our opinions here in Gotham will have on the course of our country for the next four years.
Ola Laurin: Very interesting. I have to say, Canada seems beautiful, and the people seem nice, funny, and intelligent. Vancouver is especially beautiful.
One thing the Republicans should consider. Who the hell makes the f*cking money for our country? What if my fantasy were fulfilled and the coasts — with the banks, the computer and software industries, the research engineers, the biotech, the pharmaceuticals, Hollywood, the music industry, television, etc. — seceded? I would love to see how the red states would make out in the world with their f*cking ethanol, Corn Flakes, Garth Brooks, WWF, hog farm, Nascar economy. Those people need to show some respect. Who pays the bills around here?
Sorry to rant.
“Ignorance is not bliss.” But then again…
http://chrisevans3d.com/files/iq.htm
Happy to say that I was born and raised in — Connecticut.
Ron’s rants are wonderful.